Maybe it’s just me, but I’m noticing a fairly impressive upsurge in 9/11 conspiracy theories here recently — both on-line and in the paint.
These folks are incredibly frustrating for me, because no matter how logical, or how iron-clad your counter-argument is, they just (metaphorically) stuff their booger hooks into their ears, squinch their eyes shut and sing, “Lalalalala!” at the top of their lungs until you give up and walk away — which they promptly count as proof that their nutty little theory is correct.
“The demolition of the World Trade Center is obviously a controlled demolition/implosion type event.”
“Ever see the inside of a building that’s been prepped for an implosion before it happens? You’ve got walls and floors missing, holes drilled everywhere, huge slices taken out of ceilings and pillars, and bundles of det cord as big around as my thigh going down the middle of halls and taking up most of the space in the stairwells. Don’t you think that kind of prep-work would be fairly sodding obvious?”
“Implosion! Controlled demolition! Government cover-up! Lalalalala! Besides, Dr. Whozit is convinced!“
“Dr Whozit has a degree in Sub-Saharan Cultural Anthropology. His sum and total contribution to the world of science is an incomprehensible paper on the mating dances of the Hutu tribe. Structural engineering is a lee-tle bit out of his area of expertise.”
“He’s an expert! Government cover-up! Lalalala! Besides, he consulted with Hondo Whasisname, who has a degree in Strutural Engineering from Geshundteit University!”
“Ever researched Geshundteit U.? It consists of a fax machine, a Dell PC and an HP Document printer. It’s usually located in room 7B over Sevi’s Taqueria, unless the Oklahoma City PD Fraud Squad has another outstanding warrant, then you can find it by checking the local No-Tell Motel parking lots for a green-and-primer-grey 1986 Honda Civic.”
“Government cover-up! Lalalala!”
*sigh*
And they lie.
I had one person post on a forum that there were “No eyewitnesses who saw a plane being flown anywhere near the Pentagon on 9/11.”
I actually went to the trouble of finding a list of folks who testified that they saw a plane at treetop level over a highway heading directly for the Pentagon, called his attention to it, and posted the link for him.
Two days later, he’s on another forum telling those folks the exact same line — and since he got a list of folks who testified that they did, indeed, see a plane, I figure that makes him a damned liar.
Whenever I get suckered into debating one of these folks, I usually wind up with an insane urge to grab them by the throat and bounce their head off of the nearest convenient concrete surface, while shrieking colourful observations regarding their intelligence at the top of my lungs.
However, I have just seen my brother handle one of these folks at the local mall — and the boy is a genius.
He points and laughs.
I’m talking knee-slapping whoops of belly-laughs, wiping tears, exhortations to, “Say that last one again — go on!” Followed by, “No, you’re serious? Oh, I’m sorry” with one minute of grace, before he starts snickering, which dissolves into gales of laughter again.
Apparently the local 9/11 conspiracy types don’t handle pointing-and-laughing well at all.
Now, if I can only figured out how to implement this tactic on the World Wide Web…
Oh, well.
LawDog
I was going to say your brother has talent because it’s not easy to laugh like that on command, but he’s not acting, is he? Sometimes you have to laugh at these people, else you’d cry.
I think what annoys me most about the “controlled demolition/radio controlled plane” theories is how they seem to be saying the dead don’t matter. Mind you, I don’t wish this kind of horrible thing on anyone, but I use this as an example. If one of these people came home and found their wife raped and brutally murdered, how would they feel if people looked at the crime scene photos later and said, “That’s a mannequin with it’s head taken off. And that’s pasta sauce spread all over the bed… look, you can see a little bit of a mushroom in that corner.” Essentially, that’s what they are saying about those who died on 9/11.
These conspiracy theorists are all part of the blame Bush social club.
Yeah 9/11 was a Bush Cheney plot to start world war III and drive up oil prices…… Whatever.
Maybe we don’t have all the answers regarding who knew 9/11 was going down but we can all be pretty sure how it happened.
Two of my former co-workers were killed on FL175. Literally dozens of people I knew and worked with were killed in the towers. One of my client firms was essentially wiped out completely. Men I served with were killed in the Pentagon.
I am an aerospace engineer by training, a security consultant by profession; and I am a former officer in the United States Air Force.
I believe I am qualified in making an informed opinion here; and my informed opinion is that anyone who thinks anything to do with 9/11 was a hoax, staged, a government or industrial conspiracy, or in any way anything other than a vile act of war against the united states, by a loathesome and evil enemy; is a complete, and utter shithead.
There was a meeting of some “stop the 9/11 conspiracy” group at a local bookstore the other day while I was browsing. My wife saw the meeting, and immediately came looking for me, simply to make sure that I was not about to do violenc upon the assholes leading the session.
I dunno, maybe if those SFBs (shit fer brains) had to confront someone who actually lost friends and acquaintances on 9-11, maybe they might STFU. It wouldn’t change their minds, tho, they hate Bush et al. so much that they’re nearly psychotic from it all.
Thanks! That’s a wonderful response to a whackadoo problem.
I think I would be rich now if I had only invested in tinfoil hats…
I don’t know if 9/11 was planned by the government or what. I’m going to be neutral on the subject. But the one thing that gets on my nerves is that all the people who insist that 9/11 was NOT planned by the government, say that if it was true it would mean that the government would have been responsible for the deaths of some of it’s own citizens.
So what? Have you forgotten Waco? Go to:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Waco
Watch the movie “Waco: The Rules of Engagements” Parts 1 & 2. Then tell me if you still think the government wouldn’t murder it’s own people.
Buy the DVD of “V for Vendetta” at your local Bestbuy. Watch it.
My point is that people who are given a taste of power won’t stop at that. They have to get more & more & more. It’s like heroin. And they will do what it takes to get that power. I think we are all aware of what people addicted to drugs will do in order to get more drugs.
And no, I’m not a democrat or a liberal or a Republican or anything. I don’t even vote.
I’m a mechanical and aerospace engineer. I can do some fairly simple modeling and show you exactly why and how the buildings collapsed the way they did. In fact, if some time before 9/11 you had said “what would happen if we dumped thousands of pounds of burning jet fuel into a couple floors of this building?” you would have gotten a simulation with the exact same result.
Being an aerospace engineer, I can also tell you that there were a lot of very odd plane crashes during the Klinton administration. With official explanations that make sophomore aerospace engineering students cringe at the sheer ridiculousness. There have been government conspiracies that killed innocent Americans. 9/11 was not one of them.
“And no, I’m not a democrat or a liberal or a Republican or anything. I don’t even vote.”
I think society is glad for that too.
Buy the DVD of “V for Vendetta” at your local Bestbuy. Watch it.
Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ, you’re holding up a piece of fiction to support your point? If there had been any question of credibility at all, that alone killed it.
I don’t even vote.
That’s a good thing, I think.
“But the one thing that gets on my nerves is that all the people who insist that 9/11 was NOT planned by the government, say that if it was true it would mean that the government would have been responsible for the deaths of some of it’s own citizens.”
No, if it was true, then it would mean the government was responsible for a better-orchestrated, more tightly-contained, never-leaked conspiracy than anything the Roswell or Fake-Moon-Landing nuts have ever contemplated.
This from the very same government that can’t get a letter across town in less than a week and can’t keep the president’s blow jobs under wraps.
Sorry, but the available evidence suggests that the very idea of this Illuminatus-like hermetically sealed conspiracy ring is the biggest laugher since since the Mondale/Ferraro campaign.
In defense of …um… one of the various anonymous commentors, I don’t think what was said is all that ridiculous. He/she/they/it did not say they believe the government did do it. Their point was just that it doesn’t make sense to support your position on something by saying “because the government wouldn’t do that” when there is evidence that perhaps the government would do that in some instances. I agree. Personally, I do not think the US government was behind 9/11, but I do think weak arguments present no proof.
I’m afraid that’s where my defending them ends.
As far as watching “V for Vendetta”… I’m afraid that counts as a weak argument. Fiction may present us with opportunities to discuss how the average citizen would be forced to repond to something, but it doesn’t present any evidence on real events.
As for the fact that this anonymous person does not vote… I tend to discount the opinions of people who don’t vote. Unless they have a good reason, like they’re only 17 years old. It’s because if something isn’t important enough for you to go down and punch a few holes in a piece of cardboard, I can’t understand why it’s important enough for you to form an opinion on and discuss it.
And now the Nutroots are starting with the conspitracy theories about today’s thwarted airliner bombings… Minds like concrete. Thoroughly mixed and permanently set.
I’m the anonymous who posted earlier.
I don’t vote because the only person I’d vote for would be my dad. I trust him, he’s honest & therefore has no buisines* in DC which is a land of thieves, liars, crooks & killers.
I suggested “V for Vendetta” because partway through the film, the main character says “War, Terror, Disease. They were a myriad of problems that were conspired to corrupt your reason & rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you.”
If you then look carefully at real life, the same thing HAS happened. People were afraid after 9/11 & didn’t care so much since the Patriot Act passed. Now everything we do is monitored.
*I know it’s spelled wrong.
Conspiracy theorists operate on the assumption that there is a group of individuals that don’t make mistakes, have complete secrecy and unlimited resources. Otherwise, these people walk on water and, either, never make or hide all of their mistakes. Considering the feds can’t even keep national security information from the New York Times, I’m inclined to believe these theorists need counseling.
These nuts make me want to scream and then attempt to smack some sense into what few braincells they have.
I still vividly recall the stories from clients who lived or worked in the vicinity of the towers and the Pentagon. You don’t forget people telling you about damaged fire engines parked in front of their neighborhood firehouse with the boots of the fallen set around it. Nor do you forget about a client’s co-worker who buried her son as a result of the attacks and who’s grandchild will never know it’s father.
You know, for shits and grins some of you ”annonymous” conspiracy theoriests should also try and link UFOs and the Yeti into your 9-11 conspiracies. You can’t have a good conspiracy theory if UFOs, Bigfoot, the Trilateral Commision and major players in the JFK assassination aren’t involved in it somewhere.
how bout those brits!
later,
Scott
Okay. Conspiracy theories bug me too. They are so easy, and they are a way to get spurious importance and spurious absolution from responsibility.
Spurious importance, because those who accept them can tell themselves (and, of course, each other!) that THEY are the wise ones who REALLY know what is going on. With not a fraction of the effort necessary to, say understand how buildings burn etc.
Spurious absolution from responsibility because if Its All Controlled By A Secret Clique That Won’t Let Me In, then, of course, I have no responsibility to do anything myself. I don’t have to argue for one course of action over another. Pay attention to how I vote (The Conspiracy does not care how I vote, do they? What’s your excuse?). Work to inform myself about history. Etc.
I do have to chime in that there’s no guarantee that the government would not do this. Of course there isn’t. However, the silly thing is the idea that there could be such a massive conspiracy that would not be ludicrously obvious. When you have fifty or so in on something, the beans get spilled pretty much every time. Look how the plans for the “Final Solution” made their way to the West long before the Nazis even really got started on the actual large-scale killing. And a 9/11 conspiracy would involve thousands, not fifty or so.
Regarding the “controlled demolition” farce, words fail me. Forget “Mission Impossible” or James Bond movies, with giant secret facilities in the middle of cities where none of the citizens have a clue of their presence, or people running around doing incredibly elaborate technological activities with nobody noticing. The idea of doing all the necessary preparations to do controlled demolition with NOBODY NOTICING–God help me. “Excuse me while workmen are suddenly busy throughout the building doing things to every single structural beam there is, for weeks.” Like nobody would notice any unusual activity. Give me a break. I’ve worked in an office. Send six guys to start doing a preliminary survey, and I don’t care how good their cover story is; somebody will see through it and the grapevine will know that something odd is happening about seventeen seconds later.
And I thank the Anonymous engineer to say that such a collapse is perfectly feasible according to sophisticated computer modeling. I can add that I have seen films and still photos of just that. I took a “Fire Science” class about thirty years ago, and they showed footage of a fire in Peru. It was a high rise; the structure had been done to decent safety standards, but in typical South American fashion too many people followed just the rules they wanted: It was essentially furnished in Furnace Fuel Chic–wicker and wooden furniture everywhere; flammable rugs, screens, ceilings, etc., etc. To an extent that would not be tolerated anywhere in New York City, except perhaps in the most Mafia-dominated projects. When the very first fire engine came around the corner, half the building was involved and flames were shooting nearly three hundred feet in the air.
And when it came dow, much of it pancaked. Supports of indivisual floors giving way one after another. There were some eerie shots where debris did not obscure the view from the side of floors stacked by the dozen with less than 12 inches between them, where all the remaining furniture and occupants etc. were all compressed together. The teachers remarked that this “pancaking” was well known in the international firefighting community, but since such catastrophic high-rise fires were rare, the general public was not very conscious of it.
Now this is not widely know, but it’s hardly a secret, and anybody seriously investigating the issue would have found this evidence. Which goes to show that the conspiracy theorists, including all the guys with degrees in sand dunes and the macroeconomics of Neanderthal man have not done their homework.
But that’s what I kind of figure for any conspiracy theorists.
LogEyed Roman
“Jet fuel doesn’t burn that hot.”
Um…yes, it does. I’ve been on a few aircraft accident sites.
“Steel won’t melt in a fire.”
Um…I’m a blacksmith…two handfuls of coal and I can set a 1/4″ bar on FIRE.
“Jet engines and wings always survive intact.”
Right. Like Brittany Spears’ virginity.
“Titanium is a heavy, almost indestructible metal.”
Except it’s light and brittle…
“A hollow aluminum tube couldn’t make a hole through three layers of the Pentagon. Only a GLOBAL HAWK!”
That “hollow aluminum tube” weighed 110 tons times 515 mph kinetic energy. Global Hawk is a RECON drone made of carbon fiber. Even a bunker-buster warhead couldn’t punch through that much concrete. Nor are we missing a Global Hawk, which is VERY EXPENSIVE. Let’s not count how many people would have to be involved on launch, programming, re-building and modifying, arming, and then shoot it at their own buddies…of course, all us military types are mindless drones afraid of being court martialed for “whistleblowing.” And all those firefighters, they were paid off.
“What about the guys in suits carrying stuff at the Pentagon? IN SUITS!”
Civilian bureaucrats wear suits to work. Why is this a surprise?
“Flight 77 never took off that day!”
Then where’s the plane and the occupants?
Oh, right. ELVIS flew it under orbital mind control lasers from the Gray Aliens, taking orders from the Illuminati.
I don’t argue. I don’t laugh. I just say, “You are a lying shithead and a textbook example of the failure of liberal-controlled education that no longer teaches logic or science.”
9/11 was caused by some wackos who decided that killing 1000+ people seemed like the thing to do in name of Allah. "We are fighting because the U.S. wants the oil". What? I'm not quite out of high school and even I know that is BS. Hmmm….I think the hole in the NY skyline has something to do with it.