Burkhas in a bunch in 3 … 2 … 1 …

Bit of a palaver in military circles — and others — over a private company’s additions to some standardized weapon accessories.

Seems that Trijicon Inc has been adding Biblical verses to the ends of the National Stock Numbers on their highly-popular ACOG and Reflex optical sights.

Trijicon states that they’ve been adding the Bible verses for thirty years or so, and that this is the first time they’ve had any complaints on the subject, but a group calling themselves the “Military Religious Freedom Foundation” has its collective panties all up in a wad.

They’re claiming that a privately-owned company putting Christian stuff on their products violates the United States Constitution.


No word yet how they’re taking U.S. service-members getting paid in money with “In God We Trust” scribbled all over the face; military chaplains wearing a shiny silver cross prominently on their uniforms; that dratted Pledge of Allegiance; the frequent mention of St. Peter (Christian saint) and the Devil (Christian) in military cadences; The Marine’s Hymn — the oldest official song of any US military branch — which asserts that the streets of Heaven (Christian) are guarded by US Marines — not to mention the hymns of every other branch of the military which all seem to mention God (Christian) in one way or the other.


What a private company does with their products is their own business. If — for whatever reason — you don’t want to use their products … then don’t.

As for the excuse that some fundamentalist Islamists are going to use this as an excuse to claim that the United States is “embarked in a religious Crusade” — what rock have you nitwits been hiding under since 2003? Everything we do has been, is currently, and will continue to be used as proof that we’re involved in a “religious Crusade” against Islam.

If this is news to you, y’all need to climb down out of your ivory towers once in a while.

Seems to me if more people spent less time actively looking for a reason to get insulted — well, we’d probably be a bit better off.

But what do I know?


Bwa Kayiman

58 thoughts on “Burkhas in a bunch in 3 … 2 … 1 …”

  1. I wonder if these folks parents were the ones who found "satanic" symbols in the Procter and Gamble corporate logo and who played records backwards to hear the hidden messages praising the devil.

  2. They're claiming that a privately-owned company putting Christian stuff on their products violates the United States Constitution.

    To be fair, technically they're saying that the US Government buying them is a de facto endorsement of a particular religion, and therefore a violation.

    Me, I don't get into the whole "my imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend" argument, but if someone handed me one of those sights I'd say "Hmm. Still seems to work." If I really cared I'd take my pocket knife and scratch out the line.

  3. When I look through my rifle scope I see a CROSS! OMG. That should bunch the burkhas some more

  4. …actually, they DO get all butthurt over "In God We Trust".
    They've even filed lawsuits about it: something about the elimination of Church for State.

  5. Mine says 1 John 1:7

    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin

  6. A bit off topic, but is anyone else having trouble getting to the Rott?

  7. Man, that's nothing. My dad's dog tags have "METHODIST" stamped right on 'em!

    I suppose the U.S. government could make a stand on this, and demand that Trijicon abandon its practice of decades that never bothered anyone before, and hope it doesn't come to a showdown. But if anyone at the White House is even aware of this story, my bet is they're hiding from it. If I were in the deathmatch they're in over health care, and Massachusettes had just elected a guy who was promising Tea Parties that he'd be the vote to kill it, I'd want to keep my powder dry. And after Health Care, they've still got a pretty full plate of things to deal with before they get around to regulating serial numbers.

  8. I like using Dr. Bronner's soap … I don't get butt-hurt over the silliness all over the label.

    In fact, chanting it aloud can be amusing.

  9. I fail to see it. Provided the procurement of the weapons was based solely on their reliability, performance, and efficacy following a lengthy trial, and the presence of the references was not a consideration, then the expenditure of funds does not constitute a law supporting the establishment of a particular religion.

    I hate people

  10. hmmm, lets see. if it was Islamic/Buddhist/Pagan Scripture their would be baying at the gates of Trijicon. if I sell 1000 vests of body armor to the Marines with some protective Islamic Prayer inside I am sure people would just say "oh get over it"

    yah, right.

    ask yourself how your fellow LEO's would feel if the pistols they were issued came with quotes from the Koran or Handgun Control Inc on them and they had no choice in the matter.

    the folk carrying those sights on the weapons they are using to defend us all have no choice in the mater of having a particular religions scripture on that weapon or not. I will no longer purchase Trijicon, which is a pain because they make a fine product. but I have that choice. but there are folk up the sharp end that know that they will be carrying hardware made by a company that wants them dead and that this is endorsed by the United States Of America.

    I don't want my tax dollars to say "in God/Alah/Hern we trust". the only endorsement I want on my currency is "for all debts public and private"

    sorry Mr Lawdog Sir. this is another case of "since it's our religion, it's ok".

  11. Honestly, if these little words shake your faith that badly, you need to re-examine your own beliefs.

    They've been doing it 30 YEARS, and no one noticed until now. Just shows you how effective these little words on the side of the sights are. No Wiccans have spontaneously praised Jesus upon picking up rifles with these sights, and no Muslim has found these sights don't work for them while they work for the Christian. So big freakin' whoop, what they did falls under 1st ammendment protection.

  12. There is a dangerous vein of (Christian) religious zealotry in the armed forces as of late. It started in the AF and has moved into the Army. There are officers and senior enlisted who use their authority to execute religious persecution. This letter gives a good idea to this.

    The MRFF was created by a Republican AF Academy graduate, a man who has children in the armed forces, and comes from a tradition of military service. A man who is Jewish. This is not some hippie atheist with an axe to grind, this is a man who wants a military that respects all faiths that are willing to serve.

  13. Foo Bar, I gotta tell ya. I'm an Asatruar. By which I mean, I follow a group of Gods and Goddesses who are definitely NOT a part of Christian belief. Thor, Odin, Freya, etc. If someone hands me a shiny new piece of Trijicon bling that makes it easier for me to acquire a sight picture and mow down the galloping hordes before they can cause harm to me and mine, I don't care if it has a Christian inscription on it. Hell's Bells, it could have a tiny little picture of Obama on it, holding up a miniature copy of the health care bill, and I'd still use it.

    People seem to get all eaten up inside over trivial crap like this. Is a Muslim more dead because there was a reference to the bible on the sights of the rifle used to do him in? No.

    Yeah, so there's a company whose owner believes in the God of the Bible. Great. Doesn't mean the US military is on some quest to scour Islam from the face of the Earth. It is on a quest to kill the terrorist dirt bags who want to kill us. And that's fine with me, I don't care what secret code is embedded in the serial numbers.

  14. This practice may not be unconstitutional, but it should be stopped.

    Our military, as a government organisation, should be absolutely impartial on religious issues. Bible verses inscribed on rifle sights contributes to the view that our military is a Christian organisation, and is not welcoming to those of other religions.

    It isn't a big enough issue to bother removing the inscription from already-produced sights, but going forward, the military should require that all standard equipment issued to troops be free of any religious inscriptions.

  15. Seems that Trijicon Inc has been adding Biblical verses to the ends of the National Stock Numbers
    To be precise, what they are adding are references to biblical verses, that is, "123456Jhn316"…

    Nobody looks at that stuff. IN 20+ years of Army service, I only looked at NSNs if I was making sure I had the correct widget, and the only thing I worried about, if "worry" is the word, was did I have the right widget.

    Whether it would help me make good commies out of bad commies was my primary concern. (Along with not inadvertently killing or injuring good guys.)

    And "In God We Trust" was added to US money in the 50s, at the same time was "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance, as an antidote to Godless Communism. I would suggest that there were better things we could have done, and could be doing, to ensure that freedom and the American Constitution survive.

  16. I was thinking that the point was that government contracts have a clause about goods not having anything religious on them. I forget the specifics. Personally, being a happy little pagan, I don't give a rat's tail. I just want to know if they were willfully violating a contract clause.

  17. good grief. some people really need to stop getting their panties in a wad, pull the wedgies from their rectums and GET A LIFE.

  18. What I've always wondered about, is why something somebody doesn't believe should even bother them.

    If it were me, and the inscription on the sights were in arabic making a reference to the Koran, I'd merely think it would by comical irony given what I was doing with it.

  19. This is beyond the pale. We need to get out front on this one–email your rep and your senators and tell them in no uncertain terms that these sights have no business being in the military inventory and should be removed immediately.

    But how does the military dispose of them? I suggest selling them–at greatly reduced prices–to the general public. I'll take two. Make that three. Or more. I'll let you know.

  20. Seriously, this came up on arfcom 4-5 years ago. Nothing to see here move along.

    Although I find it entirely appropriate that each and every verse referenced involves "light".

  21. If printing prayers to Odin and Thor on my riflescope would cause my enemies to be upset, feel fear, and lose their will to fight, I would do it.

    I hope they don't like the references. I hope it upsets them. I hope every one of them wonders if their buddies were killed by "Jesus rifles". I hope they are sitting there worrying about it when the Angel of Death steps into their foxhole.

    If I was an atheist, I would hope the same thing, because the U.S. is my team, and I'm still rooting for a win.

  22. Sheesh, what a non-issue over which to get one's undies in a wad.

    The contracts DoD executes with commercial vendors for a product the commercial vendor already makes does not say one danged thing about religion. We're buying stuff to do the job we need done. They've had this insignia on their products for 30 years and nobody cared, likely never even noticed. So why does anyone care now? Hmmmm?

    Gonna complain about that "Christian" cross(hair), too?

    I'm not Christian, and I'm not losing one second of sleep over this. They make a good product and if that's the one I'm issued, by golly, don't get on the downrange side of those crosshairs.

  23. Actually, as a Christian and as a soldier, this really does kind of bother me, as does the creeping rise of some weird brand of fundamentalist Christianity in the military. The last Hail and Farewell I went to should have wrapped up with an altar call, it was so heavily laced with references to God, and what not, and the outgoing commander gave the company a Bible as his parting gift. My Godmother was there, as her brother in law was taking command of the unit, and she was as uncomfortable as I was. Considering she's the head chanter at our church, I think it's fair to say she's pretty down the religious thing but still..her husband is an atheist, as is his brother, and I can't imagine how uncomfortable the felt.

    There is a need to keep any official recognition of a specific brand of religion out of the military, for good reason. The scopes are nice, and I'm sure they're very devout, but there's no reason for the inscriptions to be on a government contract.

    FWIW, I'm all for removing "In God We Trust" and "under God" from the money and the pledge.

  24. My understanding the current and recently renewed contract for these sights don't say a thing about what markings the manufacturer may place on the sights beyond normal US and NSN markings. It's a simple matter of issuing a change in the contract specs. I think those who say we are not in a crusade are out of their ever loving minds. Not because we started out to remove muzzies from the world but because the muzzies are on a continuation of the crusades against us. We need to get our head wrapped around this get in the game for the hard kill with the same vigor and life's hard then you die attitude we had in WWII when we went to war against the NAZIS and The Japanese Empire. I've said it for a while now, if we don't understand these people are serious about this world domination crap if it takes 10 years or 1000 years we are frakked. It shouldn't matter if we use Jesus rifles to whack them, and all the up tight people this bothers need to take a Prozac and chill.

  25. Preach on, brother Dawg. While Trij may technically be in violation of some esoteric rule or contract bullet point, the proper response would've been to nicely ask them to quit doing it in the future… not get one's panties in a twist over it.

    If anyone has a Trij sight that they want rid of due to the eeeevil scripture reference, I'll be happy to take it off your hands (cheap)! I've got a really nice M4A3 that could use an ACOG.

  26. sorry Mr Lawdog Sir. this is another case of "since it's our religion, it's ok".

    It isn't my religion.

    The MRFF was created by a Republican AF Academy graduate,

    He may call himself a Republican, but his campaign contribution record says otherwise. Or is it usual for Republicans to donate $6200 to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee?


  27. Grunt – Yeah, it's exactly like the Crusades: all those millions of Muslims taking an active part in trying to prevent our Christian government's attempt to gain physical control of the Holy Land….

    Oh wait, a vast majority of Muslims aren't rising up against the attempt our secular government's not making to garrison Israel.

    Personally, I think if we treat it like a crusade we merely play into the extremists' rhetoric, and make it more difficult to get the job done in the long run.

  28. "in god we trust" wasn't added to money until the 50's "one nation under god" wasn't added until 56.

    Learn history!

  29. "in god we trust" wasn't added to money until the 50's "one nation under god" wasn't added until 56.

    I know that. What, exactly, has that got to do with the current hoo-hah over "Christian proselytizing in the military"?

    Or are you trying to explain that those terms were added just before Glynn Bindon started putting coded Bible verses on the sides of his optical sights?

    Learn history!

    Read the blog.

  30. As we all know, our military is defending and fighting for the United States. A country that was founded by Christian men. America is a Christian country.
    Emblazoned over the Speaker of the House in the US Capitol are the words "In God We Trust."

    The Supreme Court building built in the 1930's has carvings of Moses and the Ten Commandments.

    God is mentioned in stone all over Washington D.C., on its monuments and buildings.

    As a nation, we have celebrated Christmas to commemorate the Savior's birth for centuries.

    Oaths in courtrooms have invoked God from the beginning.

    The founding fathers often quoted the Bible in their writings.

    Every president that has given an inaugural address has mentioned God in that speech.

    Prayers have been said at the swearing in of each president.

    Each president was sworn in on the Bible, saying the words, "So help me God."

    Our national anthem mentions God.

    The liberty bell has a Bible verse engraved on it.

    The original constitution of all 50 states mentions God.

    Chaplains have been in the public payroll from the very beginning.

    Our nations birth certificate, the Declaration of Independence, mentions God four times.

    The Bible was used as a textbook in the schools.

    sorry Mr Lawdog Sir. this is another case of "since it's our religion, it's ok". You're DAMN right Foo Bar. If people don't like it, let them go back to whatever country was founded by men of their religious affiliation.

    If the sights had references to other religions such as Islam, Budda or whatever, you damn right i would be upset. This is a Christian country and our entire set of laws are based on the teaching and guidance of our Christian religion.

    As for those who mention the seperation of church and state, show me where it says that in our Constitution!

  31. Ray,
    Bullshit! The US is not a Christian nation, it is a secular nation which was founded by Christians, deists, and a smattering of other religious beliefs. The Founders were setting up laws to rule over a multitude people with many different religious beliefs, not just Christianity; they simply recognized that God -whatever he/she/it/they look like , and whatever scribblings of mankind were attributed to them- was the source of things like morals, laws, goodness, freedom, etc.

    Btw, the same Supreme Court facade you use to support your statement also has Hammurabi & his Code which predate Jesus & Co. by centuries, as well as (hold onto your hat) Mouhammmed and the Koran.

    Sorry for the thread hijack. People who insist this is solely a Christian nation get my feathers ruffled just as much as the anti-theists do when they clamor for an end to any mention of spirituality in government.

  32. Ditto what dfwmtx said.

    Ray – "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…."

    My copy of the U.S. Constitution has a rather noticeable lack of references to any peculiarly Christian laws. No established church or priesthood, no holy days marked out on the calendar, no codification of religious taboos. Weird. Maybe yours is different.

    I've never been sure what people mean when they say that the U.S. is a "Christian nation." Most of our citizens profess to be Christian, of course. On the other hand, you've got a remarkably religiously neutral legal document laying the groundwork for U.S. law (including that pesky First Amendment), and a history of acceptance and relative tolerance of practitioners of other religions.

    Enough of that. Sorry LawDog.

    On a more relevant note, the Kiwis are getting the Bible cites taken off their gear, but they intend to keep using the equipment. Sounds like a win-win to me.

  33. Trijicon didn't break any rules in having this stuff on their gear — as government contracts DO NOT normally ". . . have a clause about goods not having anything religious on them. . . " (sorry, Harriet).

    trijicon submitted samples of teh ACOG with these citations on them, and Uncle Saem said, "Great, we'll buy X of them at $Y!"

    Now if Uncle Same wishes to spec the NEXT contracted buy to specifically state that they be free of any religious citations, fine. Of course, that's a costed ECP (Engineering Change Proposal), as Trijicon will either have to modify their molds (yeah, apparantly they are cast right into teh body), or grind them off and re-finish the sights.

    But if Uncle Sam wants to pay the cost differencial, fine. or if Uncle same wants to find an equivalent sight — oh, wait, there's a REASON they buy Trijicon ACOGs. . . and that is they are a sole source supplier of a very good product — Uncle Sam doesn't own the design, unlike the M16 family of rifles.

  34. California's floating out to sea & some group wants to complain about biblical references cast into our sights?!

    Never mind that the Islamists believe that both the Old Testament & the New Testament are the Written word of Allah. (They merely think that their holy Koran is his final statement on the matter.)

    Oh well! Just as the LORD sends his rain on the just & the unjust & the Bill of Rights protects the brilliant and the dimwitted.

    Move along, nothing to see here…

    Ulises from California

  35. I'm all for whatever it takes to strike absolute mind numbing fear into the little shriveled black hearts of our enemies, whoever they happen to be. Instilling fear of that magnitude in them means we get easier wins and lose less American Lives.

    If it would help, I'm all for engraving little pictures of pigs on the rifle casings and dipping them all in pigs blood as part of the manufacturing process.

    Psychological Terror is one of the most effective methods of screwing with the enemy, and I'm all for getting their little panties twisted so tight with fear that they just throw down their weapons and cry like a frenchman.

    If your not the one on the battlefield using the "offending" weapons component, you have no gripe. Shut up and enlist, then you can fool with the effectiveness of YOUR PERSONAL WEAPON.

  36. I did my time Derius and am still having to live with the physical effects of it. I know at least one other person on this forum who has also been up the sharp end.

    do NOT presume to tell us us we are not entitled an opinion.

    ask yourselves this.

    whats the difference between scripture reference on a rifle sight and the book of revelations engraved into the glacis of a M1 Abrams?

  37. Like a prior poster said, if it's that bad surplus 'em to the public and order new ones with "NO Symbology" specified in BOLD PRINT in the contract. And send one my way–sounds like just the thing to top Abomination off with and fulfill something on my Bucket List: drive the Brady Bunch's thongs into a corkscrew-level twist and them into apoplexy…

    And if having my shotgun specially blessed makes it more effective against the Undead Hordes and all other threats, bring on priests, rabbis, imams, shamans and every other Holy Dude you can think of!

  38. Diamondback,
    dare I ask what the abomination is? It's not a 12ga from hell is it?

  39. From Joe in PNG

    How about if they went with Ezekiel 25:17 (Jules Whinnfield Edition):
    "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

  40. I am falling squarely on the side of if it wasn't a problem during Desert Storm, or Granada or any of the other umpteen military actions since this practice began, why now?

    And don't say "it was a problem, just no one noticed until now." Trij has never made it a secret, folks knew. Move on. There's more important crap to fuss about.

  41. To A Soldier's Girl and Foo Bar, My comment was that those who have not served, or currently serving have NO PLACE even commenting on the weapons components. Re-read the post. I put in my time just like you. No one who has not been there done that has no business worrying about a soldier's equipment, as they have no combat experience with said weapon.

    As far as the rest goes, what the heck does it seriously matter if a few extra numbers are on a rifle, that no one has even NOTICED for the last 40 years!?

    If it strikes fear into the enemy and causes them distress, or fear of losing their souls killed by a "Jesus Rifle" then great for us. Does it really seriously matter what is engraved on a rifle used to save your life?

    I wouldn't care if it was engraved with little demons and blessed by a pagan shaman as long as it fired and performed when desired as desired!

    Would you pick up an enemy combatants rifle regardless of what it said on it to save your life or the lives of your squad?

    OF COURSE YOU WOULD. This is a NON ISSUE, and the fact that so many are upset about it is just completely ridiculous. A few numbers on a rifle IN NO WAY affect your personal faith or belief system. If it does, then you have bigger problems than whats on your combat rifle sight.

  42. dfwmtx, "Btw, the same Supreme Court facade you use to support your statement also has Hammurabi & his Code which predate Jesus & Co. by centuries, as well as (hold onto your hat) Mouhammmed and the Koran."

    You must really know your history, NOT. Hold on to your hat, neither the koran or hammurabi's code are on the supreme court.

    There are 18 figures sculpted and they represent secular law. No reference to the bible are any other religious text is given except for the roman numerals on Mose's tablets which the artise say represent the Bill of Rights.

    The laws established in America were borrowed from Britian's common law which in fact was based on Christianity.

  43. Oh, for crying out loud. The enemy is at the gate and we've got some Jewish Madelyn Murray O'Hare screeching over semantics?
    God is God, Yahweh, Jehovah, Manitou, Allfather, Zeus, Odin, and whatever else you want to call him.
    Virtually all religions have a central creator god or a benevolent father image figure, and some little gods, whether you call them saints, angels, desciples, spirits, kachinas, or anything that applies.
    Most have their version of a heaven and a hell.
    The difference and antagonism in the religions is caused by people, not the gods themselves.
    If it weren't for one people trying to impose their beliefs on another, we probably would never have a war.
    Think about it.

  44. It ought to be restricted to the Old Testament, which has much more of the "bolt from the blue" action–which is far more appropriate in battle than "Turn the other cheek" which implies exposing another flank!


  45. @Da Curly Wolf:
    You pretty much nailed it. Abomination is the modified shotgun mentioned in Larry Correia's "Monster Hunter International" novel.

  46. Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech are not mutually exclusive rights.

    The manufacturer has the right, AFAICT, to put the (properly licensed) image of Mickey Mouse on the gunsights if they so desire, providing that this does not change the specifications of their contract. It is an unobtrusive, and to my eyes, absolutely hysterical practice. If this was an important matter to the DOD, they could have easily written a provision into the contract. Since the company has a long and storied 30 year history of doing this thing, the DOD had plenty of opportunity to do so.

    Freedom of religion does not mean freedom FROM religion. Any effort by the government to restrain such things is not merely a restraint of religion, but also of free speech. If the DOD were to act against this, the manufacturer could claim that this was a restraint of free speech.

    I am one of the most Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christians you will ever meet. But I care not what religious sentiment is promulgated in these limited ways. I'm an adult, and can make my own mind up about these matters. Would there be any difference if the words 'Cthulu Lives' were there instead?

    As Lawdog said: somebody really needs to get a life.

  47. @ Meathe and Da Curly Wolf: Exactly. Mine's not gonna be SBS or select-fire and will only have a 37mm underneath, but Larry's been advising me on parts to match what he envisioned, and the bladesmith working on the bayonet and I have a few cool ideas planned to make up for it, which are currently under NDA but should really singe Brady tailhairs.

    Yes, "12-gauge from Hell" is EXACTLY the goal… *evil Palpatine cackle*

  48. Da Wolf and others concerning the Boston Globe Letter to the Editor: It has been discussed at length elsewhere and the general consensus is that it was a very skillful bit of satire. The writer has written other letters that do not indicate that he is a moonbat on 2A issues.

  49. BTW update is that Trij has succumbed to the PC crowd and has agreed to stop putting the verses on any new units sold the the USG.

  50. The whole point of the Constitution of the United States is you can worship God however you contemplate the concept so long as you allow others the same right. That means no Dhimmitude for anyone, and no special priviliges either.
    Over the last 60 years Government has found "the establishment of religion" in some pretty strange things, including those crosses on the county seal in Los Angeles.
    As for the business of the crosshairs being a cross, there were some muslim clerics about 10 years ago who didn't want the Roman alphabet in Arabia because the letter "T" was cross-shaped.
    Perhaps that is why the insurgents are such terrible shots. With the prospect of having to gaze upon a cross they resort instead to the "inshallah school of marksmanship" and simply spray and pray.

  51. Frankly, the point is being missed. Politics is 90% about appearances, 5% content, and 5% secondary sexual characteristics. This being true, is it a good idea to promote the "crusader" image (in the middle-ages meaning) in ANY way, shape or form?

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