What the hell … ?

I have just received, well, multiple copies of a police cruiser dash-cam video of a stop performed by two officers of the Canton Police Department in Canton, Ohio.

I am speechless.

The video is here:


After sitting through that, I have some questions.

1) Is it Standard Operating Procedure for Canton PD Officers to threaten to assault handcuffed and compliant prisoners?

2) Is it SOP for Canton PD Officers to search the back seat of a car with the driver not only still sitting in the car, but not even Terry frisked yet?

3) Is it SOP for Canton PD Officers to threaten the murder of handcuffed and compliant prisoners?


That lead officer in this video needs a psych evaluation. Sooner, rather than later.

I neither know, nor care, what snakes he’s got in his head, what sort of shift he had or what personal problems he’s got, but he is a loose cannon on deck and does not need to be driving anything with more horsepower than a desk, nor carrying any gun that uses anything other than water for ammunition.

As a law enforcement professional my-own-self, I state here and now that that man makes me ashamed of my chosen profession.

If you can not handle that traffic stop in the video, my old lad — that certain, particular and exact traffic stop in the above video — with more self-control, more decorum, more professionalism, and more basic, common courtesy than what you show … tell me, do: what the hell are you going to do on one that really goes rodeo?

Insults are no substitute for self-control. Threats are not better than self-discipline. Screaming is not a replacement for dignity and courtesy.

Burger King is hiring. Do yourself a favour; do your department a favour; and do the rest of us a favour — find a job doing something else … before you cripple or maim an innocent “putting lumps” on them, or you “put ten rounds” into someone who doesn’t need killing.

You complete, utter and total jackass.


11 SEP 2011
Summer cocktail

93 thoughts on “What the hell … ?”

  1. The officer seems to think potential equals intent on the part of the citizen.

    An acquaintance of mine was pulled over by a MO trooper. The officer's response upon learning his stopee was armed with a .357 in the glove box and on his way to visit relatives in AR?
    "Have a nice day, sir. BTW, you need a bigger gun."

  2. I was literally shaking by about halfway through the video. I almost turned it off. It makes me quite angry to see that sort of thing, and it bloody-well scares the shit out of me, as a CHL holder, to think that there are cops out there like that. That could have been me in that situation.

    That guy was an unqualified jackass from the very beginning of that stop, and he only turned it up from there. It ain't enough for him to be relieved of duty. He should be charged with whatever Canton PD would charge me with for threatening a cuffed prisoner with violence and death.

    Tar and feathers would be too good for that bastard.


  3. Thank you, LawDog. I knew we could count on you.

    All I want–all any of us want–is for the law to be fair and applied equally to all. If I threaten to murder a police officer, would I be arrested? If so, then "fired" is not an appropriate punishment for the officer.

    My faith in law enforcement as an institution will begin to be restored when I see officers arrested for the same things I would be arrested for. Not administrative leave. Not counseling. Not even fired. Arrested.
    Goose. Gander.

  4. In the first part of the tape, the police car driver is turning off his headlights as he drives, at night, on residential streets. How is that safe?

  5. Unbelievable. A novelist couldn't have gotten away with a scene like that even if he was writing about a pussgut officer the old segged south.

    Thank you, LawDog.

  6. Any wonder why so many people are learning to hate the police? What a serious asshole.

    The driver was remarkable restrained.

  7. I've now seen responses from two LEOs to this video, both of them pretty much the same. I would love to show this to a friend of mine who's the cubmaster of my son's pack, and see his reaction to it, in real-time. I have a feeling it would be about the same as I've seen on various blogs.

  8. That was a mess, start to finish. I know absolutely nothing about police procedure, but why would a officer climb into the back of a car with the driver still in the seat? If you have enough suspicion to search, it seems like you'd want to secure everyone before hand. It looks to me like the officers did a very shoddy job with the stop, and when they realized what could have happened to them because of their ineptitude, they got scared and took it out on the CCL guy. I'm glad their department is taking action, and I hope it is permanent.

  9. As a CCW holder in Akron, which is 15 minutes from Canton. this scares the crap out of me !
    The only time I had to deal with a Police officer since I got my permit was in an accident situation that an Akron officer responded too, he couldn't have been nicer when I told him I had CCW, he even thanked me for telling him. Perhaps Canton needs to send their officers to Akron for some training

  10. If this had gone rodeo, he'd be dead. He's too dumb and power-drunk to be a cop. Abuse of power should be a crime if it isn't already.

  11. I would urge all to contact the appropriate authorities in this jurisdiction and seek criminal prosecution of this alleged law enforcement officer.

  12. Anecdotal it may be, my experience with Ohio police officers has left me with a bad taste in the mouth. Under-trained, uneducated, and unprofessional crop up all-too-often.


  13. So, Dog, as a police officer, what do you really think his chances of being fired and/or charged? Because I have very little, sad to say.

    Does anyone know if Ohio's AG has seen this?


  14. I watched that video and decided that if I would have been the driver, I would have started bawling, dropped into fetal position, and probably would have shit and pissed myself in that situation. That was scary to the max.

    When is this stuff going to stop?

    In Spokane, WA, where I'm from there has been a rash of police shootings and other instances of police initiated violence:

    Otto Zehm – Died from positional asphyxiation after being falsely accused of robbing an ATM. He was developmentally disabled and the first responding officer is caught on video brutally beating this man while he held a 2 liter bottle in front of his face to block the blows. Otto was then placed in a non-rebreather mask and put on his stomach. It wasn't until EMS arrived 5-10 minutes later that they realized Otto wasn't breathing. He was taken off life support a few days later. The first responding deputy was cleared of any wrongdoing. Also, they termed Otto Zehms death an "excusable homicide".

    Pastor Scott Creach – Police officer in unmarked patrol car parked on private property in the early morning hours of August 26, 2010. Pastor Creach owned a nursery and was an upstanding member of the community. There are varied reports, but many in Spokane believe that Pastor Creach was on his knees with his hands behind his head when Officer Hirzel shot him. Pastor Creach's wife was not allowed outside to comfort her dying husband, and Officer Hirzel waited 5 minutes before calling EMS. Pastor Creach was carrying a 1911 at the time, and had defended his property previously from meth-heads looking to steal from him. Oh, and apparently Officer Hirzel was working on his side job, selling dildos online, while he was parked on private property, and being on duty for the County Sheriff department. Officer Hirzel went on vacation for two weeks directly after the incident. Hirzel was also cleared of any wrong doing.

    Shonto Pete – Still living. Was shot in the back of the head while running away from an off-duty police officer. Apparently Pete was propositioned for sex by the officer, and when refused, the officer accused Pete of trying to steal his truck (investigation proved no fingerprints on the officers truck), and many believe the shooting was to cover up the officer's homosexuality. The gun used to shoot Pete? Why it was the officer's service weapon. That officer resigned when he found out he was going to be fired, 2 years after the fact.

  15. John A. Van Curler – Killed when he was struck by a police cruiser driven by Officer Gordon Ennis. Van Curler was intoxicated, but was crossing at a crosswalk. Officer Ennis was using his on board computer typing a message to dispatch when he hit the pedestrian. Also, Officer Ennis was going over 35 MPH in a 30 MPH zone, with no lights and no sirens when he hit Van Curler. Spokane Police Ombudsman called it “just one of those regrettable situations.” Officer Ennis was cleared of any wrongdoing as well. As an added note, texting while driving in Spokane is against the law.

    Ethan A. Corporon – This guy was a crazy. He had a shotgun and had fired off 6 rounds in a residential neighborhood, but all the information I can gather points to him using shot, and not a slug. I would hope that if he had been using slugs, that it would have been all over the news, but it wasn't. The Spokane Police WERE justified in taking this guy down, but, it took six officers, firing 26 shots into a residential neighborhood to stop this guy. Oh, and how many times did our crazy guy get shot? 4. Yes, you heard me right. 4 times. Of 26 bullets. In a residential neighborhood. All the officers were cleared of wrongdoing, which I think is great, but I really feel like they need to go back to the range for a few hundred hours before they are put back on the beat. With accuracy like that, its a wonder they didn't hurt anyone else.

    There are many, many more. Oh, and Spokane is a "redneck, conservative" town in Eastern Washington. The population hovers right around 500,000. This kind of violence seems unwarranted. Upon further investigation, you learn that Hirzel was a transplant from S. California, and apparently he had choked a teenager to death there before he came to Spokane.

    In Spokane we have a police ombudsman, and since his appointment to office, it seems that the SPD has distanced itself even more from the community. People are scared here. People seem to be scared everywhere.

    Have any tips for us, LawDog?

  16. When you threaten someones life in cuffs and they are as compliant as a mouse I mean wtf. If that guy was trying to elbow someone or get to his weapon then yeah taze him throw him in the back and book him but hell that guy was following every direction etc.

  17. Thank you LawDog! I am the guy who created the thread on TFL about this case. So far, I am following the discussions on many forums, websites, blogs and the sort…

    So far not one single officer has come to the defense of these officers. Many even say it was the silent officer's duty to reel in the rogue criminal calling himself a peace officer!

    I hope I am not the only citizen with a long fuse that would have reached a certain boiling point while being accosted and having my life threatened by the thug criminal!

    And to top it off the dept. claims he has "been relieved of duty" when in actuality he is on FULL PAYED SICK LEAVE rather than being "suspended" and put on DOCKED PAY ADMINISTRATIVE LEAVE… Sure the unions are likely an issue here but the guy should be formally charged already for the violent felony crimes of threatening to murder or terroristic threats or the ilk.
    Brent aka:hogdogs

  18. Lawdog if you saw an officer on your department exhibit this kind of behavior what would you do?People can say it is a small minority of officers that are like this but I believe it is the majority of of officers unwilling to stand up to this behavior and cross the "thin blue line" that makes it possible

  19. "nor carrying any gun that uses anything other than water for ammunition"

    For some, even h2o is deadly. I have NEVER run across any cop who fits that description … or near it. I agree that he should try decaf!

    Ulises from CA

  20. The officer in question is on paid leave pending resolution of the incident. He is currently using sick time, which seems oddly appropriate. He is entitled to normal due process until his severance from the PD occurs.

    Given his shocking behavior, had I been in the victim's shoes I would have shut my mouth and handled it through IA the next day. Mr. Williams was risking an even more serious injury that he received when arrested by attempting to reason with the officer.

    Question for the LEOs here; what are typical department policies on use of anabolic steroids by officers? It certainly looked like a case of roid rage to me.

    The local DA has already offered to drop the "failure to inform" charge in exchange for Mr. Williams agreeing not to sue the city. Mr. Williams has refused. I lived in the Midwest for a time and I can't see a jury being particularly sympathetic to that profanity and threat-laced tirade.

  21. The only experiance I had with an officer here in the DFW area was during a roadblock stop for insurance checks. I gave the officer my DL, my CCW, and my insurance card. He asked if I was carrying and I answered yes. He then asked what I had, and I told him it was a 45 Sig 1911
    His response was "Man I want to get one of those"
    This is an example of a professional police officer who is not threatened by having normal law abiding citizens carrying the means for self protection.
    I realise my limited interactions with the police during the last 50 years (I am 67) is not statictical evidence of anything But it would appear that this officer is not typical of the average policeman and I hope his actions will not be used to judge all cops.
    Paul in Texas

  22. "The local DA has already offered to drop the "failure to inform" charge in exchange for Mr. Williams agreeing not to sue the city."

    In most places it is illegal or improper to to make such an offer… Something about not bartering a criminal charge regarding an associated civil suit…

    as for his "sick" leave… Any unpaid monies he is entitled to should be negotiated upon his severance. But I am in awe that a person can threaten to commit first degree while on camera and not be charged by the same DA who is attempting to negotiate an innocent man's future! The city attorney team is the ones who should be talking about a civil suit or not.


  23. Since obtaining my CHL, the only LEO encounter I have had was when a TXDPS officer just north of Nacogdoches on US 59 when the throttle of my Toyota stuck open and I had to pull over at kill the engine and await a tow. I immediately pulled out my TXDL and CHL and tried to hand it to him and he waved me off insisting he didn't need to see that. Nicest guy you'd ever meet. complete opposite of this critter.

  24. LawDog:

    I have to offer the counterpoint to this travesty.

    I have had interaction with various Texas peace officers since I got a CHL in 1996. City cops in College Station, Bryan, Hearne, Franklin, Garrett,Rice,Richardson. Texas DPS troopers on several occasions as well. Sheriff's Deputy in Crockett County. With the exception of one really young College Station cop who became visibibly nervous when informed I was armed, without exception, I have been treated with courtesy and professionalism. One DPS trooper, after seeing my CHL, informed me that I was a "certified good guy" and wrote me a warning ( when he could have cited me) , then dismissed me from the scene with wave and the comment " thats a nice pistol".

    Maybe Texas is different; or Texas lawmen are more professional, or perhaps they hold more closely to Sir Robert Peel's dictum that the police are the public and the public are the police. Or maybe they understand the Constitution better.

    Thanks for illuminating this crap.
    I hope they nail this guy. he is a bad apple.



  25. Like so many others have noted, this guy is hopefully an aberration.

    I've had conceal carry permits in many states and encountered officers in several – and have NEVER had anything other than polite, professional behavior. Usually, in fact, they treat my having a CCW/CHL as a plus – they know I'm not a nut-job or a criminal.

    I've seen so very many bad raids, inept shootings and insane officers that it's depressing; I wonder how what the percentage is of the total number of officers though?


  26. I can understand that an officer's first priority is going home to his/her family safe at the end of their shift. Therefore it is in MY best interest to be totally transparent in my interactions with them. (I work with the local PD in the course of my job duties, I am a transit supervisor.)

    The officer made a big mistake (or 3) and became angry due to the danger he placed himself in.

    Informing an officer that you are dealing with IN ANY SITUATION that you are carrying is just smart. Doing away with the Ohio law won't change that fact. In most cases, when they run your plates it will show up anyway and alerting them that you are a CCP* License holder and whether you are carrying or not will only help the situation.

    In no way can I agree with the officer's actions or reactions. But let it be a lesson to all. Don't scare an officer.

    * 'Carry Concealed Pistol' the official name for it here.

  27. Glenn, did you watch the video? The driver did EVERYTHING he could to not scare the officer. He was so meek, I don't know how he could have been less confrontational. Keep in mind that he himself wasn't confronted until 5 minutes into the stop.

    The officer worked himself up into a fit of self-righteous indignance.

  28. 1. Have worked with law enforcement at local, state and federal levels.
    2. Over the last 40 years, watched the LE profession descend into the pits and then pull itself out again.
    3. Several dynamics at work.
    4. At this point, most local police forces require at least an associate degree in criminal justice or military MP experience.
    5. Vetting processes are tough and getting tougher.
    6. Patrolling is an increasingly technical operation.
    7. The cult of professionalism is supplanting the dislike and distrust of the public that used to be the institutional attitude reflected by experienced PO's.
    8. Rather, be it there or not, it tends to be hidden by the calm, professional mask.
    9. Your episode, and the others recounted in comments, notwithstanding, law enforcement is more efficient, capable and professional now than in earlier times.
    10. Cold comfort if you have a run-in with someone who is off the reservation. That's the biz.
    V/R JWest

  29. Professional LEOs from all over the US went to help out after Katrina, and didn't think twice about wiping their jack boots on the 2nd Amendment when a local sheriff decided that the 2nd Amendment no longer applied, and private guns were to be confiscated and in some case destroyed. Did eveyrone get their guns back yet? Even after court orders?

    Then there is repeated harrasment of folks and their video cameras. Because LEOs don't like to be on the record with what they do. It is easier to to make stuff up in the dark.

    Chicago's Special Operation Section. John Burge and the Midnight Crew from Area 2. (Also form Chicago.) Rampart in LA. New Orleans PD and their cover-up of murder committed after Katrina. (If you don't know those stories, all I can say is, "Google") That doesn't even consider the things they did in the Bad Old Days of the 50s, when cops in the South rode with the Klan Motorcades.

    (These stories aren't ancient history. There are still people in prison because of John Burge. The Special Operations Section was shut down less than 10 years ago. The LA PD is still trying to put Rampart behind them – though did get out from under the feds.)

    The continued harrasment of people exercising Legal Open Carry. (Though maybe they have been hit on the head enough over that one.)

    Any "profession" would see this guy and folks like him gone. In law enforcement, the unions will make it hard to fire him, and the DA's won't prosecute him.

    The Criminal Justice System. More Criminal than concerned with Justice.

  30. The Tampa Cop that dumped a guy out of a wheel chair a few years back because he didn't follow her order to "stand up." (He was in a wheelchair for a reason.) Other officers caught on tape were laughing.

    The cop that tasered a guy with a broken back – 10 times – becuase he wouldn't follow his order to "stand up." (He had broken his back in a fall off a bridge.)

    They routinely harass, taser, arrest and sometimes shoot people with mental disabilities because they are "acting strangely." (i.e. they aren't following orders properly.)

    This is not professional behavior.

    Then I have to ask the question: Is the TSA a law enforcement organization?

  31. Personally I feel that the police profession took a big hit to their respect when the agencies began the "paramilitary" crap. Starched slacks and shirts replaced by military uniforms…

    And the term "peace officer" died with the "No Knock Warrant" which I feel was based on "evidence retention" for the purpose of forfeiture of assets to boost the budgets of agencies while supplying all sorts of neato goodies like hot rod cars and boats too.
    Brent aka:hogdogs

  32. In a state with a must inform law, had the permit over ON TOP of the DL.

    As to this officer, I cringe knowing my wife and kids drive on the streets the likes of him patrol. This is what you get when you stop having policing and move to "war on Drugs"'and the War on Crime and teach people this behavior is ok. To the previous poster who talked of the cult of professionalism. This us them attitude is what causes the mentality that "I am superior, I am a cop, what I say IS the law."

    Used to be if you had kids you wanted them to be able to call the cops if they had trouble. Nowadays you teach your kids "don't say nothing to the police" (yeah I know double negative) because we hear about stories like this.

    Or the young deaf woman who was tasered for not responding to voice commands.

    Or the St Paul man who had his house shot up in the middle of the night by a no knock team accessing the wrong house. He shot back, luckily no one died but he was nearly killed in his own house because an officer could not get an address right. Oh yeah. Several of the officers got medals for "heroism" for this.

    Or the Minnesota undercover officer who road raged and threatened to shoot a young mother ands her husband infront of the kids. There the husband shot back defending his family, and got convicted of a felony.
    The UC who had cost the department lots of money and time getting planted, outted his ID on TV.

    There is only one way to change behaviors like this. Make all settlements come out of overtime and retirement funds. Not general funds of the taxpayers butin monies already earned by officers. If other officers are standing by a rogue colleague they suddenly can see their retirement fund getting blown and they will step into the situation and they will engage in wall to wall instruction.

  33. @Transit Glen if the officers first priority is going home to his family he needs to find another job.His first priority should be to protect the public and enforce the laws.

  34. I live in a state where we are not required to notify during a traffic stop. It is precisely because of this sort of reaction that I do not notify.

  35. His partner, who didn't do anything to stop this, also needs to be held accountable.

  36. "Cop" is not a profession.

    Why? Everyone says it is!

    First of all, a professional “professes”.

    Professors are the best professors.

    Clergymen are second best professing, unless they profess theology, naturally.

    Lawyers and politicians, I suppose, must also be accounted professors of the profession of law. This is an ancient accounting, all the way back to Oxford and Cambridge.

    Yet it is apparent that Cops "profess" nothing but their innocence.

    So what is "Cop"?

    "Cop" is a skilled or semiskilled trade depending on one’s specific job.

    Not convinced?

    There is something else intrinsic to a profession, it's defining feature, the sine qua non:

    A profession is self-regulating.

    That’s about settles it, n’est-ce pas?

  37. If you want to see something even scarier, head over to the Forums on Officer.com and read all the posts in FAVOR of the LEO in question.

  38. Good write up, LawDog. You pretty well said it all. I've had three official encounters with law enforcement since I started carrying a gun. Two of those were polite and professional (down right friendly). The third was a hot-headed a-hole, but my gun was the absolute last thing he was worried about. Funny that.

  39. That one was real close to going rodeo… sigh… Thanks for the comments LD!

  40. Being form Seattle, where cops prone you out handcuffed and stomp on your head for being Mexican, I am more disturbed by the the silence and lack of action o the part of the cops around the "bad cop".

    It's hard for me to believe this is not endemic problem in law enforcement, when we never see video of officers stepping in to stop cops who are behaving like criminals.

  41. After seeing that all I can say is I thought Roscoe Rules was a fictional character.

  42. The "professional" cop has had 16 Excessive force investigations against him in the last 10 years.

    Tell us again – who watches the watchers?

    Who polices the police?

    All Y'all cops need to be policing yourselves a little mo betta.

  43. I'm a corporate attorney in Cali, active on local gov't and nonprofit boards and commissions, and the police in my town seem friendly and professional, but in the last few years if I see a cop in a restaurant I avoid eating there and go elsewhere; if they come in while I am eating I just leave. I tell my clients that nothing good can ever come from an interaction with a cop now in California. And that's without having a gun on my person; CCWs are not yet shall-issue in my county. I would not be surprised to see most officers in my county behave as in the video. It should not be this way. It will take many lawsuits to fix it.

  44. Oh, and the video of the Oceanside officer's encounter with the open-carry fellow is getting so much play (especially among Cali gun owners) precisely because it IS unusual.

  45. But wait, it -gets better-. Saw fox news on lunch. "We can't begin to understand the pressure the police are under. Traffic stops are so dangerous…" "The civilian never announced he was carrying, you're supposed to do that, it only takes, what, 3 seconds?"

    Actual quotes… From a supposed 'legal expert'.

    Appalled, yes.

    WV- 'Hosongs' The blathering of prostitutes…

  46. I would imagine that this particular fellow is not acquainted with the works of Sir Robert Peel.

  47. Christopher said:
    "…I am more disturbed by the the silence and lack of action o the part of the cops around the 'bad cop."

    Where the hell do you think you are, Chris? You're on the page of a highly agitated cop, speaking out loudly against this. I've posted my own outrage about this, and then as a follow-up, I posted the address to write to the chief, as I have.

    What the hell else are we supposed to do, hire a sky-writer? I've sat my sergeant down in front of the video, along with the most anti-gun cop in the department, and had them watch it and condemn the man as not worthy of being a cop. My father (yet another cop) was so disgusted with the description of the Canton officer's actions, that he couldn't bring himself to watch the video.

    Real police are apalled by this. But you can see what you want to see, and hear what you want to hear, I suppose.

  48. Re the Oceanside "good cop" encounter:

    I look forward to the day when "man with a gun" calls merit the same attention as, say, "man with a tuba"– sure, not something you see every day, but a legal act and not worthy of a police response.

  49. MattG, I am not sure what Christopher meant to imply… Personally, I have seen ZERO support of this criminal/rogue/wannabe cop by other officers with the heinous exception of the LEO forum I refuse to name.

    I took christopher's remark in line with my feelings… Why do the cops ON SCENE not pull their fellow employee aside and stand them down or dress them down (what ever is needed) right then and there and then file the proper report at end of shift?

    Like co-workers in other industries are expected to do if they do not want to see the quality of their product go down due to bad performance on the part of a co-worker. And the same gets done when a co-worker treats a client or potential client with poor personal behavior.

    Personally, I would wait until I got the co-worker off in private and off the clock and tell 'em they aren't going to jeopardize my reputation since we wear the same uniform and if they can't change, I will see them gone one way or other.

    LEO companies should be no different.

    Matt, I read your blog and those of other upstanding officers…. Do you feel fellow officers try often enuff to take a bad cop aside and attempt to mentor them in the ways of being a GOOD or GREAT OFFICER that can be remembered after retirement as being "One of the good ones…"?

    Brent aka:hogdogs
    P.S., The thread I started on "The firing Line" about this went 128 replies before one Chicago officer (SWAT experience as well) came along accusing the posting members as being "Cop Bashers" which resulted in the thread being closed. The moderator who closed it up basically dressed him down for his attitude and accusations…

  50. First of all: thank you, Mr. Dog.

    Second: I have heard many, many horror stories about rogue officers. I could even tell one of my own, and that was without any sort of obvious weapon on my person or in my vehicle. (I tend to consider my quarterstaff a non-obvious weapon, and yes, I have used it.) None the less, my experience from 20 years of legal practice is that the vast majority of officers are polite, professional, and honourable. I do think that the bad apples are not held to account often enough, but I also think that we hear so much about the bad apples precisely because they are the exception.

  51. As a CCW also in Akron, I'm not too impressed with Canton PD as a whole. In addition to this… (I cannot fathom a noun despicable enough to properly describe this 'officer') there are a few other issues that comet o mind…

    CITY OF CANTON, OHIO V. HARRIS, 489 U. S. 378 (1989)
    Essentially a 'Failure to train' case.

    Then there Bobby Lee Cutts, Jr.

    This one is close to me, as I worked with Jessie Davis until she was murdered. By her Canton cop boyfriend.

    Might be me, but this is a trend for the department.

  52. one thing thats being thrown around (having lack of access to the officer in question) is various signs and such to perform the notification in a nonverbal manner.

    what are y'alls thoughts on having a sign (with maybe a copy of the CC permit) say attached to the visor on the drivers side?

  53. "What the hell else are we supposed to do"

    LEOs who want to know what the hell to do? Here is a suggestion. Get your unions to move off the spot of protecting cops at all costs and getting the bad apples out. Everyone deserves fair treatment. But some guys don't deserve to be cops, and the unions need to

    I grew up in greater Chicago and lived and went to school in the city. And went to the clubs there when I was younger, so I mostly follow the antics of Chicago cops.

    And there are a lot – some were already mentioned. Special Operations Section was a criminal organization by the time the city disbanded it. (One cop was arrested for murder-for-hire just before they closed SOS.)

    John Burge and Co. tortured black guys to get confessions. Now that there is DNA testing some of them have been released. And there is an anti-torturing investigation. And a previous Illinois governor – not Blagojevich – commuted all death-row cases, because some of the guys Burge and Co. tortured were on death row.

    More recently Chicago has had a widespread problem with cops shaking down tow truck drivers. Want to cars in Chicago, better be ready to pay a few bribes.

    Or the cop that was drunk and in an accident, and because SOP wasn't followed for their fellow LEO, the evidence to show he was way over the legal limit was not admissible in court. Just a coincidence that it was a cop for who the evidence was tainted, I'm sure.

    The list of Chicago problems is actually quite long, and that doesn't even cover the "little" things. Like Chicago cops refusing to come to the scene of a gay-bashing because they hate gays. (And if the cops don't come, the ambulance doesn't come – not to the scene of a violent crime, or at least not in Chicago.)

    That cop who got drunk and beat up a woman bartender – because she wouldn't serve him. It was all caught on tape. Last I checked, he was prosecuted for something minor, and the union was fighting for him to keep his job.

    Those cops that destroyed any chance of convicting their brother officer of drunk driving were given a slap on the wrist – not charged with conspiracy to obstruct justice.

  54. I think the only way to get cops reformed is to record everything they do on the clock.

    If for any reason the video is later found to be unavailable, that would be a strike against them if a citizen complaint covered the time of the black-out.

    If they know Big-Brother is watching, then maybe they will reform. And if they don't reform, maybe the video evidence will get the bad apples out of the barrel.

    That and getting rid of the damn war on drugs.

  55. I would point out that my experience while carrying has invariably been positive. The most excited I've seen an officer become was one who said, "If you don't show me yours, I won't show you mine."

    This needs to be fixed. If only 10%of LEO's support this, (and by failing to correct it at the seen an officer would be implicitly supporting it), then we have a problem. If even 1% of LEO's see nothing wrong here, we have a problem.

    Ergo, we have a problem here.

    Professionals do not have unions to protect them and their actions from those to whom they owe their livelihood, the tax paying public.

    Professional LEO's MUST step out and denounce those who would act in a manner which would damage their creidibility in public.

    KUDOS to LawDog and the others who have done so!

  56. I believe that the unnamed second officer on the scene was Harless's trainee, or at least junior.

  57. Zendo Deb said:
    "Here is a suggestion. Get your unions to move off the spot of protecting cops at all costs and getting the bad apples out."

    I don't belong to a union. My close friend LawDog doesn't, either. My father doesn't. I don't know anyone down here who is. I do belong to a statewide police association that will provide legal aid in the case that I get sued, but that's just to get the legal insurance and the extra life insurance. It's NOT a union.

    So what pull would I have with your stinky Chicago unions?

    And, for the record? We don't bear any resemblence to your Chicago politics or law enforcement. That's your mess.

    (As for the Anthony Abbate case (Chicago cop who beat up the bartender), he was convicted of a felony, and I don't see anything in my search about the unions trying to protect him. He is trying to sue for "wrongful termination," but that's a dead-end, and we all know it. I don't know any cops who have ever expressed a word of sympathy over that scum.)

  58. Not too often a leo will speak up when another leo is out of line — makes me wonder if there are ANY "good cops" anymore.

    So it's good to see your comments on this, LawDog.

    liberty & justice,


  59. Mikael said:

    Here's a response from a dirtbag on the city council to the video going viral.

    That drives home how a psycho cop could think he can get away threatening a "mere" citizen.


  60. I appreciate the post. It reaffirms my belief that most officers are the good guys and condemn the pond scum in the video.

  61. Hear here, sir.
    Inexcusably reprehensible.
    My hat is off to your critique.

  62. Matt G.

    You may not have any pull with the stinky Chicago unions. But how much pull do you think I have?

    One of the reasons (and only 1) that I no longer live in the People's Republic of Illinois. The cops are crooked. The politicians are crooked. The taxes are astronomical. …

    And it may not be fair (welcome to the real world) but the actions of this guy in Canton, the 5 idiots who were just convicted in New Orleans and the cesspool that is Chicago PD reflects how all cops are viewed. I can guarantee it influences what I feel when I see the boys in blue. (And the Canton incident, and the Brett Darrow incidents – plural – prove it isn't just a "big city" problem.)

    If LEOs can't fix it, we are all screwed. But someone has to do something.

  63. The last time I stopped a guy who was carrying, he handed me his CCW and other info and he informed he had a gun on his right hip. My response was, "Really? What do you carry?" He said, "A Kimber .45 auto." I think I started drooling…

    We had a nice short conversation about guns and their merits and he was on his way with a verbal warning.

  64. The guy is either scared shitless of guns, or is cognitively unable to actually evaluate the situation before him and make rational modifications to his behavior based on reality.

    Either leaves him temperamentally unsuitable.

    What's really disturbing to me is that he has this hair trigger impulse to have these pointless arguing discussions with the suspects that don't have any investigative value. "You're a stupid SOB do you know that? What were you going to tell my wife after you shot me with that thing?" These conversations don't lead him to new evidence. Don't lead the perp to incriminating themselves. Don't provide the info he needs for his report. All they apparently do is get him more fired up and give air to his justification for escalating his own behavior in the absence of any actionable activity by the suspect.

    He's a very sad man who will need a lot of counseling before he's suitable for any serious work (if ever). Although I suspect he may have to hit rock bottom (and get drug across the rocks for a while) before he will accept that he is the problem.

  65. Typical cop mentality. I know you won't like that, but this kind of thing is QUITE common.

  66. Here's another one for ya, LawDog – seems in the Peoples Republic of Illinois, videotaping/audiotaping of LEOs while said LEOs are "working" constitutes 'eavesdropping' – and approximately 12 other states have similar statutes on the books? Ummmmm, since LEOs are considered "public servants", most especially when 'performing their duties', isn't this a rather clear Constitutional violation?


    Semper Fi'

  67. lawdog, if you can contact ambulance driver tell him his blog page is running a rogue script that locks up the page and wont let you scroll or use it. thanks.

  68. "when they realized what could have happened to them because of their ineptitude, they got scared and took it out on the CCL guy"

    "DA has already offered to drop the "failure to inform" charge in exchange for Mr. Williams agreeing not to sue the city"
    The "FTI" will go away anyway, 'cause he's on tape clearly TRYING to inform, several times (& being told to be quiet!), & he hands over his permit, which is also 'informing'.

    "Informing an officer that you are dealing with IN ANY SITUATION that you are carrying is just smart"
    I won't unless required/forced by law, precisely because of incidents like this, & other 'rogue' cops doing similar things,
    as well as previous problems across Wisconsin with open carry (completely legal, no permission slip needed, 6 restricted places… most of which will go away once we have permits).

  69. Reading through your backlog and catching up on a favorite writer (lost the address when my computer died, and then I went and got sick myself. Now that I've found this again, I'll likely lose the next WEEK as I happily mow through your writing!) when I saw this.

    Sigh. See… THIS is why, back in 07, I didn't press charges when I was attacked in FRONT of the officer. Grew up with a law enforcement daddy, law enforcement family, so I have, shall we say, an inbuilt tendency to lean in the direction of believing the officer's version of things.

    Until I moved to NE Ohio – just a few miles from Canton. A few miles further away, you have Stow, where they send a bill to your house if you call the police. Akron – where I've heard the lilting tones of "Thank you for calling 911, your call is important to us, if you have an emergency, please wait on the line while we answer your call in the order in which it arrived" for 15 minutes while you hyperventilated and try to remember all the things the aforementioned daddy taught you. Heck – Brimfield is here as well. Home of the police who hang out in parking lots in winter, waiting until someone is picking their way across an icy lot with their hands full to come up behind them and blare their siren and went the unlucky woman goes sliding under a car… roars away, splashing snow and mud on the now trapped and dirty scared/mad unlucky soul.

    This is an area that is a serious mess in the head of a gal who was brought up to believe in the police, to trust those entrusted with being guardians… and makes me far less likely to call for help, but instead swallow, breathe deep, and realize all you have is yourself. (Well. In my case, yourself AND the quietly growling wall that is her husband).

    Not… a good scene up here, LD.

    Jenna Magpie

  70. It won't have effect in actual fact, that's what I suppose.

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